The Moveable Feast

Darryl June 16th, 2010

2007 Royals International 38 Monarch

Royals International 38.5 Monarch (manufactured by Carriage Inc. (http://www.carriageinc.com) purchased new September, 2007 from Eldorado RV, Lethbridge, AB Canada (http://www.eldoradorv.com). Purchased Pull-Rite SuperGlide 24K hitch and solar system at the same time, and had dealer install both.

This fifth-wheel trailer has been our home since September 2007.

When we were researching a unit to live in full time, we quite liked this trailer with its package of amenities and features. However, after living in it, we are now aware that the manufacturer does not deliver quality in the areas of technical design, detail, fasteners, finishing, and assembly.

A full range of issues dealing from outright dangerous safety defects, to sloppiness with the cosmetic, to constant failures of installed equipment continue to make our life on the road interesting, to say the least.

The marketing claim made by Carriage is that our model is the top fifth wheel in the market. So far, we can only agree that it is the most expensive. At close to $200,000 before extras, we should be able to rely on much better durability and quality of base construction.

Carriage Manufacturing Quality and Warranty Service Support:

This unit is not of sufficient structural integrity and construction quality to warrant competing in the price range, and warranty service offered by Carriage is very poor.

After encountering numerous serious problems with the basic structural engineering of Carriage product, we have since studied several other makes and models at half the price whose structural engineering, running gear, and frame design far exceed that of our Carriage unit.

It is also our sad experience that support offered by Carriage for defects in their products is very poor, particularly in light of promoting of their Royals International product as a market leader.

Carriage treats customers with serious warranty problems much differently than they indicate they will in their sales literature.

Although they claim to encourage full-time use of their product, we were treated poorly by their support personnel, accusing us of ‘off-roading’ to cause damage. They implied that we might have caused the damages by being inexperienced, and that full-time use was harder on the vehicle.

Carriage seems to not retain notes or customer service records from previous issues or even from previous conversations on the same issues, forcing us to endlessly repeat information that had been provided.

When failures occurred to items under warranty, we were told to contact their suppliers, forcing us to do the job that Carriage warranty personnel should be doing in order to rectify their manufacturing quality control issues.

When we traveled to their plant to show them our difficulties and to discuss our issues with them, they would not meet. Instead, they made us first wait, then stand in a busy public area, where their representative proceeded to rudely accuse us of causing the damage before telling us that he did not have time to talk to us. They would not come and inspect the vehicle, even when a critical failure (brakes, bearings and frame) happened within 30 miles of their factory.

Carriage personnel would pretend to forget who we were when contacted by ourselves and service personnel during the course of our more than fifty problems.

This behavior became laughable, as only a few versions of our model are made per year, and even fewer have been purchased.  You would think that a manufacturer’s warranty manager for their top line product would be able to remember a handful of customers, particularly one whose failure reports had accumulated to such a large amount.

Outcome:

After purchase, it has taken us several hundred hours of effort and several tens of thousands of dollars to try to bring the quality of the unit to a condition that should have been delivered in the purchased product.

After hearing the opinions of many suspension, wheel and frame specialists over the course of our problems with this manufacturer, it is obvious that this model is under-designed and under-engineered for the size and weight of the unit. We have not been on any more than a few miles of gravel in the 25,000 miles of travel we have done in the last few years.  Yet we are exasperated with severe structural problems that we have experienced since beginning our use.

Our thinking for the first two years of ownership was to attempt to work with the manufacturer, assuming that they would be highly concerned with not only remedying problems we were having, but also in using their internal processes to demonstrate the quality of their after-sale services.

This was not to be so.

Our next course of action was to revisit the dealer from whom we purchased in early June, where we were finally treated with basic concern for our product difficulties.

Our goal is to have the structural integrity of our coach re-manufactured into a safe and proper condition and to be fully reimbursed for expenses and costs rising from having to deal with critical failures of Carriage product.

Failing that, we believe that our only remaining choice will be to try to recover costs of purchase, repair, legal expenses and legal recovery.

Problems:

The following is our log of technical problems organized by issue, recording all defects, warranty issues and repairs experienced since delivery. We continue to update the log as changes happen.

Unresolved Issues:

1. Frame Failure
   • November 24, 2009. Larry Fox, Fox RV, Middlebury, IN reported that he has found what he feels is the cause of our difficulties with the slideout, and body cracking.The frame has buckled right over the wheel, caused by the axle box making hard contact with the frame.  Fox RV re-cambered the frame, installing four foot metal plates on the side of each frame member over the wheel boxes.
   • February 2010. After being delivered to our place in Pharr TX by a professional RV delivery service recommended by Fox RV, the frame has dropped two inches.  Cracks in the body have re-appeared, the arizona slide is binding.  Upon contacting Fox RV, they have told us that the situation is not unsafe for road travel, but have recommended jacking the back of the RV to retract and extend the slides until they can review the problem.  We are planning to take the coach to Indiana in early August 2010. In addition, body and interior panels are buckling, joints are opening up, panel screws need to be screwed in at every stop, and gaps are opening in several points in the body panel caulking.
   • February 2010. We confirm that the frame specification for main box beams in new versions of our model has been increased to 12 inch, up from 6 inches in our model year.
   • March 2010. Noted slumping of floor in interior rear.
   • June 2010. Ron Hall, owner of Eldorado RV inspected our coach, confirming structural failure. He requests that we supply him with background information.
2. Bedroom SlideOut Motor Failure
   • May 2010.  Wardrobe slide fails. Cause is incorrectly assembled gearbox, where interlocking slide teeth and drive gear teeth are not mounted closed enough to each other. Repairable by rebuilding gearbox or by replacing motor/gearbox unit with one that is properly assembled.

Resolved Issues:

1. Power Outlets
   • September, 2007. Not working on dining room slide.  Problem identified pre-delivery. Issue traced to an open connection in a junction box. Repaired by dealer before delivery.
2. Bathroom Door
   • September, 2007.  Would not latch. Problem identified pre-delivery. Door set installed incorrectly. Repaired by dealer before delivery.
3. Dining Table
   • September, 2007.  Scratched and scuffed table top.  Problem identified pre-delivery.  Dealer committed to replace.
   • Table sent August, 2008. Self-installed, taking approximately 20 minutes.
4. Cabinetry
   • September, 2007.  Mismatched doors under kitchen sink. Dealer committed to replace.
   • Cabinet finishes were undersprayed upon manufacture, resulting in bare spots on doors and surfaces.
   • August, 2008, doors shipped by dealer. Doors shipped without hinge mortise milling and hardware mount pre-drill.
   • September, 2008. Fitted doors and mounted hardware.
5. Basement Latch
   • October, 2007. Broken latch on basement hatch. Problem seemed to be internal, with the mechanism jamming.  Could not determine cause.  Dealer informed, committed to replace.
   • Received part from dealer January, 2008.
6. Electric Step
   • September, 2007. Step does not retract, stopping before full stow. Problem determined to be bent side plate, causing binding.
   • Self-repaired.
   • Additional note: the motor operating the step is underpowered.
7. Front Landing Legs
   • October 2009. Right side landing leg fails. Replaced by Fox RV, who also replaced other leg due to same problem.
8. Slider tray in Basement Storage Compartment
   • September, 2007.  Slide lock on bay defective and slide fails under certain conditions, causing it to bypass the locking mechanism and roll into the hatch door during motion.
   • Problem is that distance between rails is more than it should be for the width of slider tray. Best remedy would be to remount rails or move rollers out.
   • Temporary solution is to place a wedge in the locking mechanism while traveling.
9. TV Antenna
   • September, 2007.  Delivered nonworking.
   • Reported in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Dealer attempted antenna repair, could not diagnose.
   • Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. TV antenna issue diagnosed by Winegard warranty centre in Edmonton, Canada as broken internal wire. Antenna was a broken lead right inside the motorized unit. Lead was not secured in the housing so it rode up between two rotating plates and was severed. Part ordered.
   • Also discovered lack of continuity in tv lead. TV lead installed so tightly through slideout scissor arm that it kinked. Removed broken area of line, pulled additional length and installed union.
   • Received antenna part from dealer January, 2008.
   • May, 2008, part installed by Explore USA RV Supercenter, Kyle, Texas.
10. Wheel Lugs
    • September, 2007. Several plastic covers on wheel lugs, cracked on installation. Dealer committed to replace.
    • Received parts from dealer January, 2008.
11. Vanity Sinks
    • September, 2007. Twin stainless sinks in bedroom mismatched.  One is brushed, the other polished. Dealer committed to replace.
    • Received part from dealer January, 2008.
12. Bathroom Trim
    • December, 2007. Transparent trim installed incorrectly in bathroom, causing separation.
    • Removed excess length causing lifting, and reattached with additional clear spray glue.
    • May, 2008.  Same problem in other area.
    • Same repair.
    • June, 2008, same problem in area above toilet. Left for manufacturer to note.
13. Kitchen Slideout Brush
    • Glue failed on slide out brush mounted on bottom of granite counter, brush fell off.
    • Self-repaired.
14. Roof Ladder
    • September, 2007. Peeling and scaling paint on roof ladder. On delivery, dealer committed to replace.
    • Received part from dealer January, 2008.
15. Leather Hide-a-Bed
    • September, 2007.  Abrasion on arm front. Self-repaired with leather conditioner and colorant.
16. Suspension Shocks
    • September, 2007. Thread portion showed impact damage on both right and left sides. Determined that problem is caused by mounting design, where bottom of shock has less than 4 inches clearance from road surface. Shocks still functional, will need to be cut off when replaced or upgraded.
17. Sliding Door, Hallway
    • November, 2007. Door left unpinned during move, causing one side to come loose.  Dismantled and repaired.
18. Skylights In Dining Room Slide
    • September 2007. First rainfall noted that skylight windows in Arizona slideout leak in four places. Reported to dealer.
    • November 2007. Recontacted dealer for warranty repair, no response.
    • January, 2008. Contacted trailer manufacturer. Told me that they would not fix on location.
    • January 2008. Contacted window manufacturer who indicated that problem was caused by incorrect installation.
    • May, 2008. Repaired Arizona window leaks, work done by warranty center in Boerne, Texas. Windows were caulked from the outside with sealant, a method specified by a customer service rep at Carriage.
    • May 29, 2008. Suspicious of the recommended repair method, re-contacted Quality Control at Hehr Windows who confirmed that the proper treatment of the window issue is to remove and reseal.
    • November, 2008. Windows leaking again. Removed a window and found that entire top of slideout was watersoaked and wood sheathing had rotted. Removed all windows, roof, sheathing, fibreglass. Dried out over five days with fans. Replaced fibreglass, plywood sheathing, and roof skin.  Reinstalled windows, seating them in Dicor.
    • September 2009. Windows leaking in one spot. Upon inspection, determined leak was caused by slide out flexing during in/out motion. Leaving for manufacturer.
    • November 2009. Windows removed and reinstalled by Larry Fox, Fox RV, Middlebury, IN.
19. Slide Outs
    

    Damage to Trim

    • October 2007. After 1500 miles, noted that two main slideouts do not seat properly, resulting in wear to the vertical trim strips and body when travelling, and in rubbing through the cloth and wood panel under the slideout. Gaskets disintegrated under uneven pressure. Difficult to move slideout, with binding on both in and out motions. Reported to dealer, and new replacement gaskets requested.
    • Received new gaskets from dealer January, 2008.
    • May 2008. Problem determined by technician at Explore USA RV Supercenter, Boerne, Texas to be caused by factory installation of gasket in an incorrect location, allowing metal to metal contact.  Technician installed replacement strips beside existing gaskets.
    • August, 2008. Glue on strips installed in Boerne failed. Accessed proper 3M gasket adhesive, and remounted.
    • March, 2009. Slideout motor under Arizona room fails. Upon inspection, found that motor casing mounting bolts had sheared off.  Reported issue to Carriage who in turn, notified their supplier, AlKo-USA, formerly RBW, the vendor of slide mechanism and motor. Motor and gear parts shipped to us.
      

      Slide-out Gasket Damage

    • March, 2009. Replaced slide motor, but resistance drag from slideout still prevents motor from operating slideout action. However, can now manually crank slideout. Critical failure of motor casing suggests that strain on the motor from a poorly fitting slideout is the cause of the defective slide action and the reason we cannot retract or extend the slideout using the motor. Now must have slide motor action repaired during visit to Carriage later this year when other slide defects are being dealt with.
    • November, 2009. Slide removed, bottom repaired by Larry Fox, Fox RV, Middlebury, IN. He confirmed that slide failure was caused by bent frame, see unresolved issues for more detail.
20. Bedroom Closet Door
    • September, 2007. Screws on clothes closet bottom slide mounts stripped and would not tighten, resulting in one door swinging and unsecured during motion. Retapped threads, replaced with larger screws.
21. Instable Kitchen Island
    • September 2007, Noticed that kitchen island top moved back and forth approximately 1.5″.  Found that island was fastened to flooring not floor joists, and unlikely to be able to  be accessible for proper attachment.  Also noted that floor dips in several areas when walking on it. Determined from manufacturer that flooring was only single sheet of 5/8″ sheathing on 16″ centres, we do not feel this is an  adequate specification for normal load.
22. Flat Panel TV, Main Cabin
    • June, 2008. During a move, the screws holding the main screen fail, leaving only a single strap holding it in place. Upon looking at the screws, found that they were undersized for the weight.  Changed the fastening system to 1/4″ bolts, hard-mounted to panel, then tightened down with a flat/lock washer combination from the front. Screw holding strap also too small and too short for the load expected, replaced with proper sized screw.
23. Slide Motor Access Panel
    • September, 2007.  Front left inadequately screwed on during fabrication, leaving a 1/4″ gap in the cover.
24. MOR/Ryde Pin Box
    • September, 2007. Improperly installed fifth wheel pin.  Wrong plate, not enough bolts for the specification, and mounted 1/2″ too far aft. Made for very difficult hitching/unhitching conditions.
    • October, 2007. Removed plate, retooled edge, then remounted with increased number of bolts.
    • November, 2007. Power harness cable support mount fails due to inadequate screw holding it to body.  Redrilled for more substantial fastener size, and re-installed.
25. Drawer Latches
    • October, 2007. Latches not installed on several drawers, including media centre, large closet beside kitchen.
    • March, 2008. Located matching drawer latches, and installed.
26. Island Slide Out Rack
    • September, 2007. Falls apart when moving.
    • October, 2007. Modified rack hooks to not fall apart when moving, by fastening racks to vertical rails of rack system.
    • June, 2009. Slide tray binding. Upon investigation, discovered that a salt shaker spill left salt on the rail that over time, oxidized the track. Purchased new slide for replacement.
27. Bathroom Air Register
    • October, 2007. No airflow from heat vent in bathroom. Problem determined to be flattened duct.  Removed vent, reflared duct to increase opening size, and flow improved.
28. Gutter
    • November, 2007. Not sealed in the centres and water stains sides after rain.  Sealed with silicon.
29. Awning, Carefree of Colorado.
    • February, 2008. Spline on rear awning splits and releases end of awning. Split caused by screw driven into spline during installation, causing spline to break. Awning not used, and left stowed.
    • June, 2008. Paid for repair in Edmonton Shop, $150.
    • November, 2008. Awning control unit failed, taking out control board with it. Repair specialist determined additional problems with wiring of one awning being backward, and failure caused by wiring damaged during initial installation.  Manufacturer did not accept diagnosis of repair specialist, and would not honor their warranty. Repaired at a cost of $800.
30. Norcold Refrigerator
    • May, 2008. Norcold fridge controller cards failed. Replaced under warranty in Mercedes, Texas.
    • December, 2008. Fridge failed again, basically running wide open all the time regardless of temperature setting.  Repair specialist determined that thermistor needs replaced.
    • January, 2009. Part replaced by Grand Strand RV, we paid for labour and part.
31. Wood Finish Trim
    • October, 2007. Wood trim across main slide out windows comes loose, caused by what seems to be inadequate fastening.  Glued and re-fastened.
    • February, 2008. Wood baseboard under kitchen sink falls off, caused by inadequate fasteners.  Glued and re-fastened.
    • September, 2008. Vertical wood trim on main slide out post falls off, caused by inadequate fasteners.  Glued and re-fastened.
    • October, 2008. Crown moulding comes loose, caused by inadequate fasteners.  Glued and re-fastened.
    • June, 2009. Additional trim comes loose, leaving for manufacturer to inspect.
32. Grey Water Electric Gate Valve
    • May, 2008. Grey water valve failed.
    • June, 2008. Had new valve installed by Junior’s RV, at Golden Acres Campground.Edmonton, Canada.
    • August, 2008. Valve fails again.  Dismantled to find that Edmonton repair shop had not installed a new valve, just jimmied the original until it worked. Ordered new valve at a cost of $200 which we paid and self-installed.
    • December, magnetic switch on valve fails. Part not available separately.
    • January, 2009. Replaced entire valve at a cost of approximately $225 parts and labour.
    • March, 2009. same grey water valve has failed again.  This is the fourth failure.
    • June, 2009. Repaired, problem was that installer had tightened too much, causing valve to bind. Loosened and lubricated.
    • September, 2009. Both valves operate poorly. Disassembled both, lubricated and re-assembled.
    • March, 2010. Black water valve failed. Had to have tank pumped out in order to remove.  Gears had stripped internal to the valve.  Replaced with manual, and also installed a bypass system to port black water directly to street connection.
    • June, 2010. Grey water valve failed. Replaced with manual.
33. Wheel Bearings
    • June 2008. Left rear wheel bearing failed near Segovia, Texas during move to Western Canada. MOR/ryde. Repaired by heavy-duty brake and suspension mechanic in Segovia, Texas. Reported that in his experience, failure was caused by lack of packing/lubrication upon installation or by improperly installed seal. In the support calls with Carriage, the bearings and wheel assemblies were indicated as Dexter. Upon contacting Dexter, the system was identified as MOR/ryde. Further investigation determined that bearings were actually of Chinese manufacture, the unit had been assembled by Kodiak Trailer, then branded as MOR/ryde.  Parts were supplied by Kodiak Trailer, we paid installation of charge of $175.
    • Had specialist  check all bearings. He reported low fluid in two other bearing cases, topped up.
    • Necessitated two nights in hotel waiting for parts to arrive.
34. Bedroom Closet Rod and Shelf
    • March 2008. Collapsed during move with normal amount of clothes and shelf contents. Caused by inadequate fastening to closet frame. Disassembled and reassembled with improved quantity of screws and glue used.
    • Noticed during this repair that insulation in walls was cut in such a way as to leave a 1″ gap in wall cavity around framing. Potential for sweating confirmed on cold mornings after a dew.
35. Brake Failure
    • August, 2008. Critical failure of brakes, both wheels, right side. Calipers had fallen off of wheel, causing complete system failure. Bearings also damaged.
    • Repaired in South Bend, Indiana, by heavy-duty brake and suspension shop. Parts supplied by MorRyde. Extensive conversations with Customer Service, Carriage Inc., Roger Stickel.
    • Repair shop pointed out that suspension system was impacting on the frame of the trailer, causing frame to dent. Repair personnel indicated that in their opinion, suspension was under specified for the size of the trailer unit. We informed Carriage, but they would not come out to look while trailer was dissassembled.
    • We paid labour charges of $250 and handled all deliveries from Mor-Ryde facility to shop. Initial delivery was wrong parts, took them back and picked up correct parts.
    • Necessitated two nights in hotel.
36. Windows
    • October, 2008. Bedroom window panel blew off trailer during move.  Problem caused by failure of glue used to bond operator system to painted surface on glass. Upon inspection, several windows have failed, similar issue. After reporting issue to trailer manufacturer, was told to deal directly with window manufacturer, Hehr Windows. Received parts numbers from Carriage, and organized shipment of 11 new windows vents and egresses to replace presently known defective windows. Have to be manufactured.

    

    • November, 2008. First two windows arrive. Self-installed.
    • December, 2008. Balance of windows arrive.  Egress windows have incorrect catch rails, and Arizona windows have incorrect hinge rail.  Reported same to manufacturer.
    • March, 2009. Manufacturer sends repair kit.  Upon receiving, have determined that the process is too complicated and will require several hours per window of preparation in order to refit previously fitted windows. Leaving replacement of windows to Carriage when we return the vehicle to their plant for extensive repair.
    • November 2009. Window operators repaired by Larry Fox, Fox RV, Middlebury, IN. He reported that glue used in original installation failed at 110 degrees. Removed and reinstalled all operator bars with higher temperature resistant glue.
37. Body

    • 

      Body Crack

      November, 2008.  Crack appeared in front body.  In discussion with Carriage, determined this was a known defect.  They have sent repair procedure, but will defer until in Indiana at the factory.

    • June, 2009. Two additional body cracks have appeared above the Arizona room slideout in each top corner.
    • November 2009. Repaired by Larry Fox, Fox RV, Middlebury, IN.  Cracking and panels coming loose caused by frame bending.
38. Heating/Air Conditioning
    • September, 2007. Remote control unit in bedroom fails. Replaced remote unit, purchasing locally.
39. Dryer Vent
    • November, 2008. Dryer vent sleeve separated from machine. Caused by machine ‘walking’ in enclosure due to inadequate strapping and method of fixing strap to enclosure bottom.
      

      Insufficient Dry Vent Installation

      Made more substantial straps and replaced. Put 4″ hose clamp on dryer side of sleeve.

40. Finish Scratches
    • August, 2008. Under the ‘guidance’ of a park manager’s assistant in a tight access for a spot in Ontario, put several scratches in the gel coat finish along the side of the unit. Purchased buffer and compound to repair.
    • November, 2009.  Repaired (beautifully) by talented technician at Fox RV, Middlebury, IN.
41. Intermittent Water Leak
    • January, 2008 - November, 2008. Water leak in vanity sink/laundry area that I could not locate. Damaged wood casing near floor. During inspection of machine straps, leak was present and was able to determine that leak was from improperly sealing pressure release valve located behind laundry area. Noted that valve did not look new. Removed washing machine, de-installed valve, and removed metal burr from valve shaft, allowing seal to properly seat.
42. Gas Shocks For Bay Doors
    • November, 2007. Two gas shocks fail in large bay. Dealer notified and replacements ordered.
    • January, 2008. Shocks arrive, self-installed.
    • October, 2008. Another shock fails, this time in left rear cargo door. Contacted trailer manufacturer, requested replacement.
    • Gas shocks arrive from manufacturer, wrong specification.
    • Contacted shock manufacturer, Suspa Inc. to discuss specification and to see if I could order direct.  Informed that defective shock had not been manufactured since 2002, and that shock failed from being inoperative for five years before installation.  Suspa will manufacture two shocks to the specification and provide to us as a courtesy. Expecting delivery mid-December.
    • Received and installed.
43. Toilet
    • December, 2008. Flush fails on Thetford Aria Deluxe II Toilet. Dealt with manufacturer to have them ship new valve assembly under warranty.
    • January, 2009. Valve replaced by Grand Strand RV, cost of approximately $75.
44. Media Centre Shelves
    • June, 2008. Shelves collapse during move, breaking side brackets. Replaced brackets.  Noted that shelves were cut too narrow for interior width of cabinet, but that new brackets improved support.
    • March, 2008. Shelves collapsed during move, bypassing bracket clips.  Best repair will be to add pieces to the shelf sides.
    • March, 2009. Repaired by widening shelves.
45. Tires
    • June 12, 2009 On recent trip out of Pharr Texas, blew two original tires (Goodyear G114 215 75R17.5) in succession within two hundred miles. Replaced three original tires, then blew one of the replacements within one hundred miles of installation. The wheel wells were heavily damaged, with wiring ripped out and left running light broken. Support for the wheel well liner was damaged, and the cloth coating behind the wheel was torn out, exposing insulation, frame and flooring. I repaired the wiring and replaced the light.The company that repaired the original blowouts (McWhorter’s in Lubbock) was a large truck tire/suspension/brakes/alignment specialty shop. Tire shop showed us that tires were several years older than our unit, and that they were not new tires when they were installed on our trailer. Tire company determined cause of the first two as excessive heat in Texas (110 degrees) combined with age of tires. New tire blowout determined to be manufacturer defect. When the third tire blew, we weighed the trailer and truck on a certified scale. The trailer was within weight rating of both the trailer manufacturer and the tire manufacturer. At the time of the blowouts, we were operating the inflations at 115 pounds. Tires had been checked at previous fuel stop and were hotter than usual. Trailer was lightly loaded, weight was distributed evenly and there was no water, black water or grey water on board at the time. Propane tanks were at 1/4 weight.
    • June 2010. Replaced last of original tires when cracks appeared in sidewall.

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